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Name: make your mark in the world
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Administrator: peter
Country: Ireland

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which is the best book?????? quran or bible

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Updated by peter at 05/13/2008 15:55

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which is the best book?????? quran or bible
4/26/2008 8:48 PM
peter, 38
galway
Ireland

part of 9:5: ". . . then fight and slay the Pagans wherever find them. Seize them, besiege them, and lie in wait for them." However, when read in its full context, verses 1-5, the meaning is quite different.
Islam does not allow or sanctify the killing any innocent person regardless of his or her religion. According to the Qur'an and Hadith (sayings of Prophet Muhammad) life is sacrosanct.
We read in the Qur'an: ". . . Do not take life, which Allah has made sacred, except through justice and the law. He orders this so that you may acquire wisdom" (6:151) and, "Do not take life, which Allah has made sacred, except for a just cause. If anyone is killed unjustly, We allow his heir (to seek justice) but do not allow him to exceed bounds when it comes to taking life, for he is helped (by the law)" (17:33). According to the Qur'an, killing a person unjustly is the same as killing all of humanity, and saving a person is the same as saving all humanity. (See 5:32.)
Other critics of Islam found: "Kill them wherever you catch them. . . " (2:191), ". . . But if they turn away, seize them and kill them wherever you find them. (In any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks." (4:89), and similar verses.
When placed within their textual and historical contexts, however, their true meanings emerge:
"Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits, for Allah does not love transgressors. Kill them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out, for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. But do not fight them at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there. If they fight you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. Fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression and justice and faith in Allah prevail. If they cease, engage in hostility only against those who practice oppression. There is the law of equality of for the prohibited months, and so for all things prohibited. If any one transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress likewise against him. But be conscious of Allah and know that He is with those who restrain themselves" (2:190-194).
The other verses read: "They hope that you will reject faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they). So do not take friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (from what is forbidden). If they become renegades, seize them and kill them wherever you find them. (In any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks, except for those who join a group with whom you have a (peace) treaty or those who approach you with hearts calling upon them to be neutral. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you and they would have fought you. So if they withdraw from you and do not fight you, and (instead) send you (guarantees of) peace, then Allah has opened no way for you (to fight them). You will find others who wish to gain your confidence as well as that of their people. Every time they are sent back to temptation they succumb to it. If they do not withdraw from you or give you (guarantees) of peace besides restraining their hands, seize them and kill them wherever you find them. In their case, We have provided you with a clear argument against them" (4:89-91).
Nowhere do these verses give general permission to kill any one. They were revealed to Prophet Muhammad at the time when the nonbelievers were attacking Makkah's Muslims and threatening those in Madinah. In contemporary jargon we may say that as the Muslims were subject to constant terrorist attacks on Madinah, Allah allowed them to defend themselves. These verses do not allow Muslims to engage in terrorism; rather, they are warnings against terrorism, but they also contain clear calls for restraint and care.
Religious texts, if not read within their proper textual and historical contexts, are easily manipulated and distorted.
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, now read
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Let us look at the Bible and apply the standards applied above.
In Deuteronomy, the fifth book of the Torah, Moses shares this message from God as the Israelites prepare to enter the Promised Land: "I will make my arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh; with the blood of the slain and of the captives, from the long-haired heads of the enemy." (Deut. 32:42)
"When the Lord, your God, brings you into the land that you are entering to possess, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites, the Girgashites, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you. And when the Lord, your God, delivers them before you and you defeat them, destroy them utterly. Make no covenant with them and show no mercy to them" (Deuteronomy 7:1-2).
"When your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter, or the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, entices you secretly, saying 'Let us go and serve other gods,' . . . you shall kill him, your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from the Lord your God. . . " (Deuteronomy 13: 6-10)
"When you approach a city to fight it, offer it terms of peace. If it agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, all the people found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve you. However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, besiege it. When the Lord your God gives it into your hand, kill all the men in it. Take as booty only the women, children, animals, and all that is in the city, all its spoils. Use the spoils of your enemies which the Lord your God has given you. . . Only in the cities of these peoples that the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance. Do not leave alive anything that breathes" (Deuteronomy 20:10-17).
"Kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. But spare for yourselves all virgin maidens" (Numbers 31:17-18).
"I will send my terror in front of you. . . you shall utterly demolish them and break their pillars in pieces" (Exodus 23: 23-24, 27).
The New Testament attributes the following statements to Jesus:
"Do not think that I have come to send peace on Earth. I did not come to send peace, but a sword. I am sent to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law" (Mathew 10:34-35).
"I say to you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. As for my enemies who do not want me to reign over them, bring them here and kill them in my presence" (Luke 19:26-27).
There are dozens of other verses that, if taken out from their historical context, seem to favor violence. Some violent Muslim groups misuse the Qur'anic verses just as various violent Jewish and Christian groups have used them to justify their causes. The Crusaders used them against Muslims and Jews. The Nazis used them against Jews. Serbian Christians used them against Bosnian Muslims, and Zionists regularly use them against Palestinians. David Koresh, Jim Jones, and Baruch Goldstein all relied on religious texts to justify their violence.
Muslims believe in all Prophets sent by Allah, and so do not misuse or misinterpret the religious texts of other faiths in order to defame them. Even in recent times, Muslims have and are facing genocidal campaigns in Bosnia, Kosova, Chechnia, Kashmir, and PalestineÑbut they have not questioned Judaism and Christianity. Such a spirit needs to be reciprocated.
[Dr. Siddiqi has a doctoral degree from Harvard, and is the former president of the Islamic Society of North America, a member of the Fiqh Council, and adjunct professor of comparative religion at California State University - Fullerton]

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Re: which is the best book?????? quran or bible
4/26/2008 9:00 PM
peter, 38
galway
Ireland

religion,,who needs the excuse ,,
who is one to con dim the other,,
sanctify your reason with which ever suites you,,
how has Santa Claus escaped the whrelm,,
the more i learn the more i despair,,

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Re: Re: which is the best book?????? quran or bible
4/26/2008 9:16 PM
peter, 38
galway
Ireland

were just all evil ,,and with any excuse we can to justify our means we do so,,and indeed if their is a god , their is no book from him,, this has been my worst day trying to find a friend,,when all they can see is their plight to avenge ,destroy, and con dim, ..but the only thing that they see is the text in which ever swing there in , and are blind to all the good thats in both books,,.even the bad in the good books take control of our lives,,even in a time of despair when the world needs to change for the better of understanding and respect, we can only hone in on the bad,,could it ever be left behind,,

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Re: Re: Re: which is the best book?????? quran or bible
4/26/2008 9:33 PM
peter, 38
galway
Ireland

and further more ,
if only to show how vindictive people are,,
they assume that if i speak good about a religion i am of that belief,,
and if i speak good of non belief i am a non believer,,
can i not be just a friend?,,
friends don't kill each other if they are true friends............
i don't mind if my friend believes in ufo`s ..
he is my friend and always remain......
i will not steal from my friend..
i will not stand and watch my friend starve..
i will not convince my friend that i am right only because i read it in a book,,
i will only share my ideas with him,,and if he says he cant believe, it he is still my friend....

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Re: Re: Re: Re: which is the best book?????? quran or bibl
4/27/2008 3:38 AM
RainDroP, 25Royal Zorpian
GooDbYe PeoPle
United Kingdom

it will ned some time to read understand what u wrote,, :d too much home work for me sir
:d
bless

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: which is the best book?????? quran or
4/28/2008 10:46 PM
peter, 38
galway
Ireland

i wonder myself if i understand it lol,,
but its not whether i do or i don't, but i cant understand some peoples attitude towards religion sometimes even when they don't understand it or they have their mind made up,,i feel sad over that,,i to be honest don't understand it all, even having read most, i cant retain it all, but i build up a picture as i read,,i cant remember much only the image,,and i think their is so much good in them,, i myself have been traditionalized in to believe in a god and sometimes i do and sometimes iam not sure,,and some people would say you have to be ether one or the other, i think not,,as i don't think "GOD" would hate me for not being sure as he has left me so much to figure out on my own,,i know its a tradition in most cases,,and that itself is so to be questioned,,what if one took over the world and it was the wrong one,,,i think even the non believer will be saved,,as this life cant be left to the chance you were born into the "correct" belief,,i know this sounds odd,,but thats why we need respect, then will come peace

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: which is the best book?????? quran
4/29/2008 5:31 PM
RainDroP, 25Royal Zorpian
GooDbYe PeoPle
United Kingdom

you are so right mr peter,, you have to keep searching until you feel confident enough to believe in something thatmight be new or odd to you, but trust me as soon as you start searching it will become much clear for you,,
i wish you all the best, and, i will have a good read again its just that i dont have so much time, but i really should spend few min reading it, ive been feeling ill lately, anyway take care and talk to you soon
bless you

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: which is the best book?????? q
4/29/2008 5:41 PM
peter, 38
galway
Ireland

you must be in love princess ;-))
come on you can tell ue hehehe

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: which is the best book??????
4/29/2008 5:42 PM
RainDroP, 25Royal Zorpian
GooDbYe PeoPle
United Kingdom

who what eh :S me, no no :d how cna i love something or someone more than my icecreams,, nope, no way, :D

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: which is the best book??
4/29/2008 5:58 PM
peter, 38
galway
Ireland

ice cream wont last for ever princess

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: which is the best book??
4/29/2008 5:59 PM
peter, 38
galway
Ireland

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: which is the best book?????? q
5/1/2008 12:39 AM
Nada, 24
Saudi Arabia

oooooOh I didn't know you're ill .I'm really sorry.
I hope you get better soon. "Salamtek" dear.

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Re: Re: Re: Re: which is the best book?????? quran or bibl
4/28/2008 5:32 PM
Nada, 24
Saudi Arabia

dear Peter,
You can have your own beliefs .....As long as you are a good and respectful person , I don't mind being your friend.
"i don't mind if my friend believes in ufo`s ..
he is my friend and always remain......
i will not steal from my friend..
i will not stand and watch my friend starve..
i will not convince my friend that i am right only because i read it in a book,,
i will only share my ideas with him,,and if he says he cant believe, it he is still my friend...."
I agree with you on this.

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: which is the best book?????? quran or
4/28/2008 8:59 PM
peter, 38
galway
Ireland

thank you for that princess,,mwah

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Re: Re: Re: which is the best book?????? quran or bible
4/28/2008 5:26 PM
Nada, 24
Saudi Arabia


Evil and bad people are everywhere .Sadly, those bad people have strong voices and can overshadow the good people.
God is there. He can hear you and know everything about you. You should pray to God and ask Him for Guidance , only then you can understand or see things as believers see.

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Re: which is the best book?????? quran or bible
4/28/2008 5:12 PM
Nada, 24
Saudi Arabia

I agree with dr.Siddiqi.......I have said it hundereds of times.
As for the question which is the best book?
Muslims will say Quran , Jews will say Torah and christians will say the bible.
I as a Muslim see things in a different way that's why I have my own beliefs (the same could be said about christians or jews).
There is also a mistake in translation in one of the verses:
""They hope that you will reject faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they). So do not take friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (from what is forbidden). If they become renegades, seize them and kill them wherever you find them. (In any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks"
In Arabic the verse uses this word "wali" in singular or "Awlia" in plural. Now "Awlia" what does it mean? "Awlia" means allies not friends. It is a common mistranslation of th Arabic text. If you look into the history of Islam , you will find that prophet Muhammed peace be upon him had a jew neighbor. This is only one example. Muslims in the Arabian land lived with jews and befriended them. During the the period of the Inquisition in Spain, Muslims and Jews suffered together and protected each other.They were friends.Also when the Jews were being killed in Europe to whom they ran ? They ran to the Muslims ruled countries or to the east where the Turks (Muslims) ruled. The Jews found sympathy and friendship among Muslims .
To this day, there are jews in Yemen , and Iran.They live in peace with Arabs and Muslims , no killing or harm in any way although they are minority. There are also christians in Jordan, Egypt, Palestine, Lebanon and many other Arabian or Muslims ruled countries.If Arabs or Muslims hate christians , they would have killed them long ago because they are minority and living in A muslim ruled countries. But this is not the case, christians have their churches and Muslims can befriend them (also in Islam it is a must to protect christians or jews if they are living in a Muslim state)
Muslims can befirend jews or christians :)

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Re: Re: which is the best book?????? quran or bible
4/28/2008 9:06 PM
BABIE, 101Royal Zorpian Verified Zorpian
Vestfold
Norway

YOU ARE ENTITLED TO WHAT YOU BELIEVE PETER ,THIS IS A VERY
"DELICATE" TOPIC .I SHOULD SAY IF YOU WANT TO HAVE FRIENDS ,PLEASE BE CAREFUL TO YOUR STATEMENT,I AM A BELIEVER BUT WE ARE ALL BROTHERS AND SISTERS OR FRIENDS HERE .WE SHOULD NOT BE DISCUSSING ABOUT RELIGION .WE ARE HERE IN ORDER TO ENJOY ,UNWINED AND JUST BE HAPPY .
WE HAVE FREEDOM TO CHOOSE AND NO COMPARISON .

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Re: Re: Re: which is the best book?????? quran or bible
4/28/2008 9:36 PM
peter, 38
galway
Ireland

that was the whole point of the post ,,to show that we can interpret what we like,,but if we just concentrate on the good in the books,,we wont have a problem,,
i think we should understand all religion`s and respect everybody`s view`s and beliefs and not jump so quickly to conclusions no matter what the media say,,
their has been so much bad been said about Islam that isn't true, and people should know this,,i am not a muslum but i do admire how they handle the abuse thats its been given,,if the shoe was on the other foot would we be so tolerant,, i would hope we would,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

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Re: Re: Re: Re: which is the best book?????? quran or bibl
4/28/2008 9:49 PM
BABIE, 101Royal Zorpian Verified Zorpian
Vestfold
Norway

I KNOW BUT THERE ARE STILL PEOPLE WHO DOESNT LIKE TO DISCUSS THEIR RELIGION .I KNOW TOO THAT THIS IS THE REASON WHY YOU POSTED THIS THREAD .SPEAKING OF EXPERIENCE PETER
AND IF YOU DONT BELIEVE ME WELL ITS OK. TOLERANCE OR NOT.

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: which is the best book?????? quran or
4/28/2008 11:51 PM
peter, 38
galway
Ireland

yes babie i understand you,,but i am not asking them to discuss something if they don't want,,actually i didn't post it to discuss it but to show people,,how were not that different,, it was something that came up when i was on another site and i felt it was important to share,,,and all i can see is people trying to show how they feel about the idea behind it,,i think people understand where i am coming from with it,,i think the whole world is on a major learning curve at present,,and in all sites and all over zorb its happening,,and i see real people doing it,,and its got to be a good thing,,i want to learn about my friends even if it makes them feel uncomfortable sometimes,,wee will i hope grow to be better friends for it,together,,most people know how much respect i have for them and their families,,

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: which is the best book?????? quran
4/29/2008 12:07 AM
BABIE, 101Royal Zorpian Verified Zorpian
Vestfold
Norway

I hope you are not offended.It was just an experience I had a few months ago,and someone mentioned on christianity
and I immediately got a pm asking me not to pursue the topic .I was only being helpful ,some of our brothers and sisters are sensitive and I dont want you to get into trouble.

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: which is the best book?????? q
4/29/2008 12:24 AM
peter, 38
galway
Ireland

not at all princess,,i know what you mean tho ,,
but id hope that people can understand me,,
i believe all religions are good and should be kept and needed if we are ever to understand who we really are,,

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: which is the best book??????
4/29/2008 12:33 AM
BABIE, 101Royal Zorpian Verified Zorpian
Vestfold
Norway

Ok point taken my prince. Good night and good luck with all the threads and for the coming posting. I am taking a break ,see you when i come back.Please visit our group too.Dont be a stranger.

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: which is the best book??
4/29/2008 12:37 AM
peter, 38
galway
Ireland

i will don't worry;-)) good night you to straight one,,;-)) hug`s

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: which is the best bo
4/29/2008 12:45 AM
BABIE, 101Royal Zorpian Verified Zorpian
Vestfold
Norway

I have a new title haahahaha ,that's our secret..lol.

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: which is the bes
4/29/2008 1:07 AM
peter, 38
galway
Ireland

mum1s the word ;-))
O a new picture;-))hugs

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: which is the
4/29/2008 1:09 AM
BABIE, 101Royal Zorpian Verified Zorpian
Vestfold
Norway

Hugs too .will miss you!

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: which is
4/29/2008 1:12 AM
peter, 38
galway
Ireland

you gonna be gone long?

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: whic
4/29/2008 1:16 AM
BABIE, 101Royal Zorpian Verified Zorpian
Vestfold
Norway

About a month.Will you miss me? nobody will hustle
you anymore.Lol.

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
4/29/2008 1:20 AM
peter, 38
galway
Ireland

don't be silly lol of coarse i will;-)) hugs
a month,,you must be going shopping lol lol
my thats a long time without zorb mainea ;-))

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Re: Re: which is the best book?????? quran or bible
4/28/2008 11:04 PM
peter, 38
galway
Ireland

sorry for the mistake it wasn't meant,,
thing is i haven't met anyone "yet" that hates me nor should i expect,,i have got a few calls that say nothing and a few thats treating,,but so,,but normally, well way more than normally i haven't meat anyone that hates me for who i am myself,,their will always be crap,,such is life,,
but i am glad of all i have meat here,,and i would consider many my dearest friends now ,,

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Re: Re: which is the best book?????? quran or bible
4/29/2008 12:15 AM
peter, 38
galway
Ireland

u know, thats so nice to hear,,but some people will still disagree,,and some will hate you and i for thinking as we do,,
This is a fact princess as little as it may sound, but if the world was filled with people of your attitude and still hold their religious beliefs of ether belief,,the world would be such a great place,,i respect you for respecting me,,,,,,,,,

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Re: which is the best book?????? quran or bible
5/7/2008 5:47 PM
Zqbal, 28
Mannheim
Germany

Hi all anser from this u kenn chek www.alislam.org end www.mta.tv we ken tel u all anser wich u leik .
awer moto is Love for all hitret far nanh
With Best regards
Kamran

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Re: Re: which is the best book?????? quran or bible
5/7/2008 8:35 PM
peter, 38
galway
Ireland

i have already been their;-))
theirs just to much to absorb in all religions ;-((
the only reason for the post is to show that were not that different,,
i have the greatest respect for all people and their religions,,i wish everyone would do the same,,
you don't love one woman and kill all the rest,,
so why cant we live our own religion and respect the rest too,,.
nice to meet you ;-))

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Re: Re: Re: which is the best book?????? quran or bible
5/8/2008 11:25 AM
Zqbal, 28
Mannheim
Germany

Hello Sir
The both of books is holy books. bat Quran ist won end only book huo ist newer changd eniy samal word .end the bible ist no mor on the reit condichen my opinien ist the Holy Quran Ist a completed pakeg for the pisfully leif if you naw end du evri think reit wat the Quran say Plz chek this web www.alislam.org end then tel me wat you think .
Sory my einglich ist not good eny mistek in spelings for thet I am sory
Thanks
my anser is The Holy Quran Ist the Best Book
Kamran from Germany

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Re: Re: Re: Re: which is the best book?????? quran or bibl
2 days ago
peter, 38
galway
Ireland

ok!
but i feel the presents in both and think both are good,,
but i hate the way they are abused

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